How To Make Myself Unpoular Amongst Americans (Part 1)

[adderslj]

There's often an assumption, usually found amongst the residents of the United States of America, that the UK and the US share a broadly similar frame of cultural context. This is, quite frankly, bollocks.

Take a quick look at this story: UK wants music embassy in the US. The key points are scattered through the story, but they come down to (a) virtually no British music is having an impact on the US charts and (b) the US is the most parochial music market in the world, bar Pakistan (which is currently edging the world towards nuclear war and thus is not a country to look up to).

Now, why is this important? Surely the good citizens of the US are entitled to listen to whatever music they want to? Of course they are. Indeed, I listen to quite a lot of American music and enjoy it throughly. The point isn't that, it's that many Americans are simply unaware of their degree of cultural isolationism at the moment. The British chart is a mix of British, American and European artists. The US chart is largely US artists. The cultural infulences at work there are purely American.

They are equally unware of the degree of cultural Imperialism that goes on. People outside America don't mind it that much - they're quite happy to use good American products that come their way. But the asymmetric nature of the exchange makes some non-Americans uneasy.

Many US writers in Livejournals, Blogs and newspapers are turning their attention to Europe and the rest of the world in a way they haven't since probably the Second World War. George W Bush has been forced to play a bigger part on the world stage than he would have if left to his own devices. We all remembers some of the simply daft things he said about foreign countries in his election campaign. This change of focus is an inevitable consequence of September 11th, but one that makes the rest of us a little nervous. Why? It's because suddenly Americans are commenting on things they have very little real understanding of. Sure, there are some well-informed commentators out there saying interesting things. But there's an awful lot of people espousing a jingoistic belief in the inherent superiority of the American way, without truly understanding the cultures and philosophies of those lands. They haven't seen their TV, watched their films and listened to their music. They haven't read their books or skimmed their magazines. They see everything through glasses with the stars and stripes printed on them. Indeed, many seem genuinely surprised when they discover that people hold different views from them and promptly set out to persuade the poor, ignorant natives.

I freely admit that not every American is guilty of this, but there's enough of them out there to make web browsing an increasingly uncomfortable experience. The really curious thing is that the attitude I'm describing here reminds me powerfully of the attitudes of the British in the 19th Century. Any chance of learning from our mistakes?

Comments

[zamiel.livejournal.com]

I suppose pointing out that if our Cultural Imperialism wasn't partly reality-based, you wouldn't be feeling so uncomfortable.

Once you get down to it, Europe as a whole has less of a global influence than the US does, anywhere and everywhere. This is because we employ the Stark Fist of Removal with casual ease. So if we tend to blow off UK music, hey, you guys had the 60's and the Beatles. We just outgrew you. Get over it.

Re:

[adders.livejournal.com]

Thank you for making my last point so clearly for me. You'd have made a fine general in Queen Victoria's army. :-)

Yes, the US has more power than any other nation on earth. Surely that means that it should be a lot more careful with that responsibility than it's being?

[zamiel.livejournal.com]

Why, no one else has, including Great Britain, the UK, and Europe as a whole. One could argue that in the measley 200 years we've had to get it right, we've done a lot better than Europe in a couple thousand. After all, we weren't ditz enough to adopt the Euro, that was you guys.

Having more power doesn't mean you should lube up and take it from everyone just because you're the biggest and best. What America brings to the table is a general distaste for that sort of thing. Probably just what the planet needs, frankly.

Re:

[adders.livejournal.com]

Whoever mentioned "lube up and take it from everyone"? I never once suggested that America had to pander to everyone else's whims. Of course it shouldn't. No country should. What I do mean is that every country has a responsibility to be a good neighbour.

You're arguing against a point I didn't make, sir.

And as for the Euro, well, I'm not part of it. The UK's not part of it. Many European countries aren't. Europe is not equivalent to the USA. The different countries are not equivalent to the states in the US. We don't have a federal government in the same way that you do. In fact, once again you've made my point for me by showing a lack of understanding of the situation here.

[maliszew.livejournal.com]

I can only add that most Americans don't care, because, frankly, the rest of the world doesn't affect their lives at all -- and they're happy to keep it that way. America is, in general, passively imperialistic. It's not out to convert the world to its way except by anarchically disseminating its culture and, through it, its ideas. There's no grand plan or master strategy, for good or for ill. I find that frustrating myself, but that's the way it is. I think Europeans are far too insecure about themselves and their place in the world and that is why they tend to view Americans as little more ignorant jingoists who should learn their place and keep their heads down.

But then I am one of those ignorant jingoists myself, so what do I know?

Re:

[adders.livejournal.com]

Now I'm fascinated. Both Alex and you interpreted what I said as suggesting that America should learn its place, or some varient thereof. That was not my intent in any way, shape or form. Why did you both assume it was?

The point I was really making was the one you bring up right at the beginning: most Americans aren't interested in the rest of the world, yet continue to make pronouncements on it.

Surely September 11 proves that theisolationist attitude is a false security blanket?

[adders.livejournal.com]

Oh, and before I forget, I was including you in the "Sure, there are some well-informed commentators out there saying interesting things" category. :-)

A

[maliszew.livejournal.com]

>Now I'm fascinated. Both Alex and you interpreted what I said as suggesting that America >should learn its place, or some varient thereof. That was not my intent in any way, shape or >form. Why did you both assume it was?

I can't speak for Alex, but for myself, this reason is simple: the conjoining of assertions of US ignorance about the world with claims to Britain's (and by extension, the rest of Europe's) cosmopolitanism. In my experience, such statements are often but one step away from declarations of America's simplisme. If that is not what you meant or believe, my apologies.

>The point I was really making was the one you bring up right at the beginning: most Americans >aren't interested in the rest of the world, yet continue to make pronouncements on it.

Unlike the rest of the world? Again, I find this charge dubious, because, in my experience, most commentators, whatever their nationality, aren't at all unwilling to comment on what they know little of. I suspect the average European commentator understands America no better than his American counterpart understand Europe. And I have the clips to prove it. :)

>Surely September 11 proves that theisolationist attitude is a false security blanket?

Isolationism is not a guarantee of safety no, but neither is cosmopolitan multilateralism. I think the real lesson of September 11 is that America must look out for America's interests, because no one else is going to do it. With the exception of Britain, NATO is so much hot air and its invocation of Article V a joke in the extreme. The US at the top of the heap and will always be a target, no matter what it does. Isolationism is the norm and it's not for nothing that the legend of Cincinnatus is part and parcel of the American ideal, even if most Americans have no idea who he was. That story tells most of what the rest of the world needs to know.

[maliszew.livejournal.com]

Oh, I had assumed so. No worries. I get passionate, yes, but I don't get angry or hold grudges. Even if you had directed it at me, I wouldn't hold it against you. No need to be concerned. I enjoy a good debate.

[tenzil.livejournal.com]

I believe the reason for the attitude that I think you're describing goes like this:

1) America is wealthy and powerful.
2) The rest of the world is less wealthy and less powerful than America.
3) There must be something inherently better about America that makes America wealthy and powerful.
4) The main difference between America and the rest of the world is that it's full of Americans rather than being full of ordinary humans.
5) Americans are superior to ordinary humans.
6) Ordinary humans would lead better lives if they were more like Americans.
7) Americans don't need to know much about the rest of the world given the self-evident truth of point 6, since, after all, all the ordinary humans need to do is emulate Americans and they too will be wealthy and powerful.

I believe that the same logic (with a different nationality) can easily be used in the case of Imperial Britain, Imperial China, Imperial Germany, etc.

Now, all that aside, there is something to be said for the fact that the US is very large, and has a more homogenous culture than any other nation in the world; we had the good fortune to invade a continent populated by people unable to adequately defend themselves against us, and so we did not bother assimilating their culture. It is hard -- not impossible, but not easy -- for an American in, say, Kansas, to find cultures substantially different from his own. Because it's hard to find other cultures nearby, it's easy to forget that they're out there at all.

UK is not Europe

[tryptophan.livejournal.com]

I find this interesting just because we Canadians often face the same problem when we travel or talk to people. "Are you American?" "No, I'm Canadian" "Well, same thing.. you're from the Americas" and they don't understand why we get upset about being lumped into a continent when we feel we have our own identity. Granted, sometimes the biggest defining factor is that we are NOT Americans, but...

[gwenix.livejournal.com]

Hey, most of the music I listen to is german.

In truth, though, basing American's taste on what music is popular is both a good and horrible view of Americans' view of the world. The Music Industry here is fighting tooth and nail to maintain their "mainstream" control, and I mean *control*. There is no secret that they force their music down our throats in one of many forms (latest measure is that nearly all of our radio stations are owned by one corporation, whoa, woo); and the mainstream of America eats it up in ignorant bliss.

Now, most of the erudite elite do notice this and look to other media to find their musical tastes. Usually this media is broader-ranged (though not necessarily in good taste), either extending into local obscurities (which I will discuss further down) or into more worldy music. Often both. And I know for a fact that you, Mr. Adders, is an erudite elite; so try not to compare yourself to one of our mainstreamers here.

Although, the fact that you did mention that your mainstream listens to US music actually kind of annoys me. I'm all for people listening to more local music over world music for their primary listening pleasure. A band (good or otherwise) needs its primary base to be local -- how else are they going to develop without a solid home audience cheering them on? But what really annoys me is that by US music, you mean our mainstream music, which means our music industry has also succeeded in exporting its shitty taste in music to other countries. I just find that disgusting, and I apologize for it.

Now, why the music industry does kinda work and not work as an allegory for us in general... the music industry is *not* the American people. It is a corporate entity, and often a conspiracy of some disorganized degree (though, more organized than most) aimed solely on making more money for itself. It pays little heed to the American populace, opting instead to tell them what for. However, this is a common epidemic among so many of our corporations, it can be applied freely.

Basically, we are sheep. Blame our sheepherders (corporations) for our fallacies, and fault us for standing line to be sheered. Baa.

(This eratic post brought to you by the letters Q and X.)

[gwenix.livejournal.com]

Erm, yah, btw;

I'm only responding to one paragraph in your essay there. Mostly because I hate the American Music Industry. I hate Hollywood nearly as much, but I can't point to online documentation to back up my claims about the RIAA. Such as:

http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/webcasting.html
and
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/

I also heartily recommend reading http://www.futureofmusic.org/ for interesting readings.

Ok, footnote out. :)

[gwenix.livejournal.com]

"to back up my claims AS I CAN about the RIAA.."

erp, oops.

[point5b.livejournal.com]

Take a quick look at this story: UK wants music embassy in the US. The key points are scattered through the story, but they come down to (a) virtually no British music is having an impact on the US charts and (b) the US is the most parochial music market in the world, bar Pakistan (which is currently edging the world towards nuclear war and thus is not a country to look up to).

Well, if you want to start making yourself unpopular with people, comparing their nation to Pakistan because they don't buy British CDs is a passable start. ;) What's funny to me is that I read that story and don't see it as a British vs. US thing, but instead as poorly-performing corporations trying to get a government to stimulate their sales for them. By wrapping themselves in the Union Jack and evoking ambivalent attitudes towards the US, they hope they can get taxpayers to pay for a PR campaign...so they can get US dollars.

The point isn't that, it's that many Americans are simply unaware of their degree of cultural isolationism at the moment. The British chart is a mix of British, American and European artists. The US chart is largely US artists. The cultural infulences at work there are purely American.

No, "purely American" would not be "largely US"; it would be a chart without Shakira or Celine Dion. It would be an MTV that didn't endlessly run Oasis videos years ago. Of course, the "purely American" line is interesting in another way entirely. The US has a quarter of a billion people whose ancestors came from virtually every country in the world. There are real, regional cultural differences stemming from distance and varied ethnicity mixes, as much as some people would like to lump all Americans together as mindless hyperconsuming rednecks. New Yorkers are not like Texans are not like Georgians are not like Californians.

They are equally unware of the degree of cultural Imperialism that goes on. People outside America don't mind it that much - they're quite happy to use good American products that come their way. But the asymmetric nature of the exchange makes some non-Americans uneasy.

"Some non-Americans" is a wildly vague term. And how uneasy? Sorry for the peevishness, but that's dodgy rhetoric.

Many US writers in Livejournals, Blogs and newspapers are turning their attention to Europe and the rest of the world in a way they haven't since probably the Second World War.

I know. When they first started covering international news to the New York Times and the Houston Chronicle last November, there was a great to-do. ;)

George W Bush has been forced to play a bigger part on the world stage than he would have if left to his own devices.

Sadly, yes, and far more than I would like.

This change of focus is an inevitable consequence of September 11th, but one that makes the rest of us a little nervous. Why? It's because suddenly Americans are commenting on things they have very little real understanding of. Sure, there are some well-informed commentators out there saying interesting things. But there's an awful lot of people espousing a jingoistic belief in the inherent superiority of the American way, without truly understanding the cultures and philosophies of those lands.

This is definitely true. It's also definitely true that there are a great many people in other countries venturing equally absurd and uninformed opinions about America. Despite some of the snarkiness I've noticed myself writing above, I'm not lumping you in with these people, Adam; you haven't said anything nearly as offensive or remotely as ridiculous. However, thing like the automatic assumption of universal American homogenity and ignorance puts me off.
What is it that Americans have been saying that's been so distressing? I can think of many disquieting things I've heard from Europe lately, but I'm at a loss for what's unnerving about us.

[point5b.livejournal.com]

They haven't seen their TV, watched their films and listened to their music. They haven't read their books or skimmed their magazines. They see everything through glasses with the stars and stripes printed on them. Indeed, many seem genuinely surprised when they discover that people hold different views from them and promptly set out to persuade the poor, ignorant natives.

And, on the flip side, simplisme is a dirty word among many Americans who perceive exactly this attitude from your side of the pond, a patronizing need to advise us less-sophisticated folk who have accidently blundered out of our borders. On the political level, I for one am mystified that some European politicians believe they have a vote in how my country conducts its national defense in the face of aggression, either on any moral level or on the practical level of their armed forces being of much use (with the pointed exception of the UK).

I freely admit that not every American is guilty of this, but there's enough of them out there to make web browsing an increasingly uncomfortable experience.

What sort of things are bothering you, exactly? I've never felt bothered by anyone else's patriotism, at least when it was a positive expression about one's own country and not a snipe at another country...Which, well, to probably cause a smidge of offense, seems to go hand in hand outside the US. We get mocked for being puffed up about our real and mythic virtues, but nationalism in other nations seems to involve a shockingly high degree of absurdly long-held grudges, tensions, and occasionally-voiced hatreds.

The really curious thing is that the attitude I'm describing here reminds me powerfully of the attitudes of the British in the 19th Century. Any chance of learning from our mistakes?

My answer hasn't changed in some time and has only been strengthened since 9/11 and the fallout: don't try to run an Empire. Don't try to police the world, especially when many of our allies and our less-than-allies both want us to do their work for them. Deal with those that threaten us, then basically leave other countries alone, whether they cheered in the streets when the WTC fell or not. Simplistic? I think it's quite sensible and moral. I want an open society where people from all over the world come here to enrich us and be enriched. As much as I have grown to admire the Israelis, I don't want to live in that kind of security-obsessed country, with murderous maniacs trying to slaughter people in restaurants and pool halls. And certainly not to be insulting, but I don't even want the milder, but still highly regulated and guarded society the UK has. I don't want to walk down a city street and not be able to throw away a kleenex because trashcans are too much of a bomb risk. I boggle at the idea of your government putting cameras on street-corners and your country still having a higher crime rate than mine.
A lot of perfectly intelligent Americans have been looking at the world quite a bit harder than they used to, and they like even less what they see than they did before. I'm not under any illusion that my country is perfect, or even remotely near that. I'm morally certain that for any criticism you might have of the US, I could come up with five equally important ones. However, I can say with honesty and absolutely no arrogance that I am fervently glad I live in the US over any other country.

[maliszew.livejournal.com]

Well said in all your posts. Much better than my feeble attempts to say the same. Thank you.